Exclusive interview with the Commander of the National Guard of Ukraine Oleksandr Pivnenko to Interfax-Ukraine (Part 2)

Part 1 is available here: https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/interview/1036790.html

 

Brigadier General, Hero of Ukraine Oleksandr Pivnenko, was appointed to the position a year and a half ago, becoming the youngest commander of the National Guard in the history of independent Ukraine. He is 38. However, Pivenko is no novice in military affairs: he has a military education, served in the Omega special forces unit, took an active part in the Anti-terrorist Operation (ATO)/Joint Forces Operation (JFO) and, of course, helped repel the Russian invasion during the full-scale invasion, defending Kharkiv region and Bakhmut. Pivenko commanded a brigade and was the head of the territorial administration. He ushered in a period of change and innovation for the National Guard. In the interview, the National Guard commander spoke about many aspects of the war, including the situation at the front, the operational situation, replenishment of brigades, AWOL, recruiting, weapons and technologies.

Interview by Valeria Proshchenko, Oksana Gerontieva

 

Training, adaptation, conditions

With what and how do you motivate soldiers?

For each soldier, motivation is decent provision: monetary and social, the attitude of commanders and in the team, military rank, promotion, proper conditions for training and service directly.

Firstly, we are doing everything to improve basic general military training. From October 7, we increased the duration of basic general military training to 54 days. We already have the first graduates – the results are much better than before. Also, from December 16, we increased the amount of ammunition to over 2,000 rounds for shooting exercises. Let's see and analyze how it will work.

The role of a teacher, an instructor is extremely important. You understand that it is difficult to take instructors from brigades during a war for training, but we involve them on a rotational basis. We also send instructors to study abroad. And a separate issue with specialists. For example, let's take a tank company. It takes at least 42 days to train a tanker, and then joint training. We are working on this, too.

 

How many instructions have combat experience?

More than half. I'm not counting those who have been fighting since 2014 – this is a slightly different experience. The percentage is much higher with them. In general, training abroad also gives a significant result. In addition, we constantly check the suitability of the commanders of training units who are directly with the mobilized. Many of the commanders have already been replaced, some have been sent for additional training.

Several thousand National Guardsmen, including commanders of various levels, have already undergone training abroad. More than 10 EU and NATO countries are helping us with this.

 

What is the adaptation period for the National Guard?

Two weeks, just like in the Armed Forces. Our programs are generally about 95% the same.

 

How often do you visit the front?

On average – once every two weeks. Sometimes – more often, sometimes – less often. There are a number of other tasks – procurement, construction, rehabilitation, personnel training, international cooperation, etc. We are developing training centers and paying a lot of attention to this. We are engaged in capital construction of barracks less often, because it is long and expensive, so we make prefabricated barracks. Two months – and the barracks are ready, the personnel are in normal conditions.

You need to create proper conditions for a military person, then he will perform his tasks differently. If you stick him in an unfurbished building and say "that's it, you are are now in Basic Training, share one rifle among four soldiers," – do not expect a good result.

 

AWOL, returning from vacation

Are there guardsmen and guardswomen who go AWOL?

Not massively, but they are there. It's not that they not flee from positions, they simply do not return to points of permanent deployment. They leave – and do not return from hospitals, vacations and days off. The reasons are different, but with changes to the law – many were able to return. This essentially gave many the opportunity to correct their decisions or rethink them. And now they are back in the unit, with renewed support, payments and no criminal record. In these last weeks, we have already reached the point that 60-70% of AWOL soldiers are returning to service.

 

In most cases, it all depends on the manager, the commander?

Yes, it has an impact. But it's also about the human psyche: in all units there are cases of AWOL, because not every person can quickly adapt to the conditions of combat operations. For someone, a machine gun shot is already a state of shock, and it will take them two days to come to their senses. And for someone, there will be much calmer feelings from an airplane overhead, from which a correctible air bomb (CAB) can be dropped. And when they are showered with "hail" 24/7, even psychologically stable fighters with experience may not be able to withstand it.

Everyone is scared. But that's the business of the military. And it is training, comrades, commanders, support that give confidence and stability. Therefore, our main task is to create conditions to change their thinking and attitude, to give self-confidence. Two months is a long period. Sometimes it may be necessary even more. And most importantly – there should be stories about soldiers sent to the front without first going though Basic Training.

 

You said that several thousand National Guardsmen were trained abroad. Were there those who did not return?

There were isolated cases. But for all the time (almost thre years) such and platoon, roughly speaking. not counted from these thousands that left. We understand that such stories happen and will happen. Again – human psychology. Most – mobilized, so it takes time to adapt. When a person goes to an already formed unit, sees that there is a commander, instructors, goes to a position, provided with everything necessary, knows that in a critical case there will be an evacuation, - then they fight. And when he came to the unit – no one knows anyone – and already went on a combat mission, well, it's not a matter at all.

It is always better to fight in trained units, so it makes sense to focus on the development of units that have good combat experience, strong commanders.

 

Azov, Khartia (Charter) units and the media

Is Azov now receiving Western weapons, and there are no restrictions on their transfer?  Because only this summer, the administration of U.S. President Joe Biden allowed Azov to receive American weapons, lifting a ban imposed about a decade ago.

Everything we have, we transfer to Azov and all brigades of the National Guard, without exception. There was propaganda, there were certain statements. But Azov is an official unit within the National Guard. Therefore, when material and technical assistance began to appear and arrive, it, of course, began to go to the units that are fighting. Because the most important task is to save people's lives.

 

How do you communicate with your units? You mentioned yourself that you have experienced and well-known commanders, how do you work together?

Before being appointed to the position, I myself was a brigade commander, I have my own experience of combat operations in various directions. Back in 2022, when I was the commander of a special forces unit, I personally stormed one of the axes in the Kharkiv region. That is, I also have such a background.

After being appointed to the position of commander of the National Guard, about half a year was of course a time of adaptation. It took some time to establish good communication with the commanders. So that they understand that I always listen to them and hear them, but that I also have my own vision and knowledge. This is a natural process, because the structure is large and the tasks are complex.

 

If we're not mistaken, you and your unit fought with the Russians in 2022 in Kharkiv region?

Yes, I was the commander of the Omega special forces unit. I met the enemy in Kharkiv region. There is an interesting story there. The task was to go to the village of Lyptsi in the morning to support the tank offensive. We set off with three armored personnel carriers, and at the crossroads we met a checkpoint. I was sure that it was ours. We saw tanks, armored personnel carriers and multi-purpose amphibious auxiliary armed tracked vehicles.

In the first days of the offensive, there was no clear front line. The enemy was advancing in different directions and was counting on surprise. We drove up at high speed, there was a tank about 30 meters from the checkpoint, and some commotion was starting from that side. We literally wedged ourselves into the crossing. And then, stopping, we saw that the uniform was different and something was wrong. A gunfight began. Our armored personnel carrier (BTR-4) quickly "solved" everything there and we, having cleared the territory, moved on. Then units from the 92nd Brigade arrived. So for us, such a first battle was, you know, a classic raid. One of our soldiers was wounded in the stomach. But even such a battle was accepted and the enemy was suppressed.

 

It is impossible not to mention the well-known Khartia (Charter) Brigade. How do you assess their work?

Khartia is a fairly new unit, they are gaining momentum very quickly. The brigade is well versed in training and management, situational awareness, analytics. They do this very well. Our other brigades are also quite effective.

Each brigade has its own vision, which is normal. But in all of them the basis does not retreat and does not harm interaction with other units, the only goal is to achieve victory.

I would like to note that we have units that are not so popular in the media, but they also have very serious combat experience. For example, the 3rd Operational Brigade, Spartan, which was also near Bakhmut, and is steadily performing tasks in the south. The Rubizh, Bureviy and Kara-dag brigades. Currently, in the Pokrovsk direction – Chervona Kalyna. There are also separate special forces units, companies and battalions, which are involved in different directions.

 

Does the popularity of Azov and Khartia brigades mean that they attract more recruits?

Yes, the popularity of the unit has a certain importance. But it is not always decisive. I can say that there are people who want to join many units of the National Guard.

 

What would you like to say to your soldiers and to people who want to join the National Guard but are still thinking?

I want to say to my soldiers: hold on, guys, remember – we will stand, we are defending our country.

To those who are still thinking: join the National Guard – we will train you, help you – you will get into the best units.

 

POWs, support

How many National Guardsmen remain in captivity? How many have returned home?

We cannot announce the number of those who remain in captivity. Some 936 National Guardsmen returned from captivity as a result of all the swaps. There are still those who are considered missing. There were many of them in Bakhmut, and then they returned from captivity. The issue of captivity is difficult. I'm not talking about the physical condition, even psychologically after two years of captivity it is extremely difficult to restore a person. We have and will do everything possible to return them.

The negotiating group, which on behalf of the Coordination Headquarters deals with exchange issues, has been expanded. The Ministry of Internal Affairs is already included in it. Our lists are formed by the terms of captivity, injuries, illnesses.

We constantly communicate with relatives of prisoners of war, missing persons. They ask "when will you return our relatives." We explain that we are doing everything we can. It is difficult. But we help in resolving other issues, trying to provide the necessary support and social support.

The Minister defined social support as one of the main tasks. The so-called patronage service – in most of our units it is called the social support service and is available in every military unit.

We also offer positions there for family members or those who, due to health reasons, cannot perform combat missions, or have been captured and have a desire and understanding of this work. For example, one woman's husband died. Leaving her alone is a disaster, so we offer her either a civilian or military position. And she helps others in the military unit at her place of residence. This is also not an easy direction, it requires significant involvement, but such people understand and have a desire to help.

 

Conditional civilian life

The Future of the National Guard: How do you see it after the end of hostilities?

Everything is simple for us, because we are already doing all this. Stabilization actions, counter-sabotage. Our enemy is defined, real, he is and will be, even after the cessation of hostilities, no matter how many years have passed. Therefore, we need to be provided with the best weapons and people who understand that at any moment we must be ready to stand up. Everyone must understand for themselves that civilian life is also about being ready to stand up and being able to protect themselves and their loved ones.

 

From a conditionally peaceful life: is critical infrastructure better protected this winter?

We have over 900 fire groups, of which about 500 are mobile fire groups, the rest are stationary. We are improving the quality of work of mobile fire groups and counting on their effectiveness. When we receive technical assistance, we will convert all fire groups into mobile fire groups so that they can operate more effectively.

Partners are also helping us in this. In particular, the American side is helping us with strengthening the protection of critical infrastructure. The first vehicles with "interesting equipment" have already arrived from them. We are currently testing this protection system, we will transfer it to training centers. Foreign partners are also helping us with long-range detection radars to destroy Shahed drones.

For the effective operation of the air defense system, our fire groups are involved, which are managed by the Air Force. We are working on their equipment and training. The group has tablets on which you can see what is flying and where. There are different weather conditions, different altitudes of Shahed drones flyover, therefore the effectiveness is different. But the level of work of these groups is increasing, and accordingly the level of protection of our infrastructure is increasing.