An exclusive interview of the Ambassador of the European Union to Ukraine Katarína Mathernová to the Interfax-Ukraine news agency about further support for Ukrainians, new projects, defence production, and upcoming the second Peace Summit

Text: Valerie Proshchenko

 

Almost a year has passed since you began the duties of the EU Ambassador to Ukraine. What has changed in your work during this time? Have there been any changes in priorities?

Tomorrow is the first anniversary of my arrival in Kyiv to take up the post. Shortly after that, I submitted my credentials to President Zelensky. Since then, it's been a whirlwind. A lot of notable things have happened in Ukraine-EU relations over the last year.

In December, European political leaders gave the green light to opening accession negotiations, which formally happened in June of this year, at the end of the Belgian presidency of the EU. The Deputy Prime Minister for Euro-Atlantic and European Integration of Ukraine and the new Minister of Justice, Olga Stefanishina, is currently in Brussels to participate in the screening exercise, which compares Ukrainian legislation and institutional practices with the European Union norms and rules. The trend in the relationship between Ukraine and the EU on European integration is positive.

We are unfortunately still living through a very hot war with terrible casualties and people killed and injured, and war crimes happening on a regular basis. The continued progress on the reform path that is necessary for EU accession is all the more remarkable given that it is happening while fighting a war.

 

Yes, the war, unfortunately, continues, so there is always a question: what about the further support? The military part is the most important of course. Because we all see that Russia is increasing production.

It is true that it has not been easy to put the European economy and defense industry on a war footing to be able to make quick deliveries. Therefore, I think the appointment of the first-ever defense industry commissioner that happened today, Andrius Kubilius, from Lithuania (a very great friend of Ukraine), is very important in this respect. He will be able to connect the dots and try to stimulate better cooperation between Ukraine and the European defense industry.

But there is one specific thing that I realized is not a well-known fact here. Before there was any discussion about the use of Russian frozen assets for the 50 billion euro loan, the EU already legislated on the use of the windfall profits from the frozen Russian assets. And the first EUR1.4 billion has already been disbursed a month ago. EUR1 billion went to several member states that this fall will be delivering weaponry to Ukraine.

However, most notable, EUR400 million has been given directly to the Ukrainian industry because of the lack of capacity within the EU that you mentioned. The Ukrainian defense industry can also produce faster and cheaper, and there are the added benefits of cutting out international logistics and transport channels, and supporting the Ukrainian economy.

The leader in this was Denmark, one of our member states. We have asked Denmark to channel this money to the Ukrainian defense industry. And of the 18 Bohdan [wheeled self-propelled howitzers] that they have purchased, ⅔ were financed by the EU from the proceeds of the Russian assets.

 

It’s interesting because we’ve heard only about Denmark.

I think that our communication can certainly be improved, and that's why I'm glad we are having this discussion, so that this can be clarified.

Denmark was the first, and that’s why we turned to them to help us with the channeling of the proceeds from the frozen assets, in total EUR400 million for the purchase of Ukraine-sourced weaponry. And there will be more.

In March, when the second tranche will be disbursed, there will even be an increase in the demand. The final amount has not been determined, but it's going to be more than the current amount.

 

You mentioned the new commissioner-designate for Defence and Space who will work on developing the European Defence Union and boosting the EU’s investment and industrial capacity. Can this speed up weapon deliveries and production for Ukraine?

We can speed up weapon deliveries to Ukraine by investing public money in the Ukrainian defense industry. The fact that this has now happened is an important development, because once you do something innovative, then you follow up again. I very much hope that others will follow suit and will use the incredible innovation that's happening in Ukraine, in this area, as a platform for financing.

Because if we have a problem scaling up our industry, why not use the capacity of Ukrainian minds and hands (and creativity) to do that?

 

Let's return to the subject of financing. After weaponry, the second big question is about Russian frozen assets. There is a lot of information in the media on that. The Financial Times published today the EU is preparing to provide up to €40 billion to Ukraine by the end of 2024 without the involvement of the United States. Maybe you can shed a little bit of light on that.

There is definitely a commitment from the EU to continue its major support. We are the biggest financial supporter of Ukraine in this war on the macro-financial side. And we will continue that. There is definitely a commitment, and I think we will do a lion's share of the promised 50 billion. And we are currently looking for ways to do it together in partnership with the G7.

I think it's still an ongoing debate, but again, let's watch out for announcements about this next week.

 

And Hungary? Their position can be an obstacle.

For the EUR1.4 billion, just like with the EUR400 million, there was no block from anybody, because it was the frozen assets channeled through the EU budget, where the institutions can act. And I think that we may have a similar solution also on macro-financial assistance. Let's see.

 

Okay, now I want to ask about peace. As you know, President Zelenskyy announced that there is going to be a second peace summit in November. Russia may or may not decide to attend. Are you helping Ukraine to prepare for the summit?

We are working very closely with the President’s Office and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on this. Also, in the lead-up to the summit in Switzerland, we mobilized the entire network of our delegations across the world and have been reaching out, including me locally here, to different countries. We actively discussed the various drafts and ideas in the various working groups, etc.

I think now we have a new element in this process, which is the announced victory plan by President Zelenskyy. The President is going to New York to the United Nations General Assembly meetings, and he will have meetings with the U.S. President and others on the margins. It would be good to pick up this debate on where the peace formula is and plans for the summit after that, because these two processes influence each other. So I think we just have to wait a couple of weeks.

 

Do you think that the Russians will come to the second peace summit, or you see now no signs that it's possible?

I think Russia responds to the situation on the ground. I am one of those who admired very much the Kursk offensive because this is the sort of operation that changed the trend. It made Russia guess what would come next.

Of course, another important factor is the ability of Ukraine to maintain defensive lines on the eastern front. However, I am not a military specialist, so it's hard to comment on this in detail. But I think many elements come into play, and I think that Russia responds to pressure.

 

You mentioned the Kursk operation, of course, everyone talks about that. Do you see some positive changes in the EU state's actions after that? I mean more support, more deliveries.

I think it was very much noticed, it was surprising to most, and I think there is now a realization in many quarters that the next half year may be decisive, and it's really now time to strengthen support for Ukraine.

 

But there are probably some discussions about “red lines”, the risk of “escalation”. And we're still waiting for permission to use long-range weapons from the US and the UK.

I think that all the ex-ante announcements of everything, while perhaps good for transparency, are on the other hand not necessarily helpful in the war effort. I am not so worried about the lack of announcements, I would be worried about lack of follow-up.

 

Do you believe that Kursk operation influenced so-called “war fatigue” in the West?

I don't think that the Kursk incursion had a negative effect.  I'm not saying it had too much of a positive impact, but it certainly didn't have a negative impact in terms of war fatigue.

 

Do you agree that Ukraine needs urgent permission for the long-range fire?

I believe so, yes. And let me refer you to my boss, the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrell, who has repeatedly said publicly that Ukraine needs to be able to effectively defend itself. And that means being able to strike military targets in Russia where the attacks originate, and so I do hope that there will be a relaxation of the restrictions.

 

Also, the High Representative stresses all the time that winter is coming and the EU states need to step up in further support to Ukraine ahead of the cold months. Can you please tell us about this help more?

We have done a lot in the energy sector over the last two and a half years. One of the seminal things that happened was connecting the Ukrainian and Moldovan grid to the electricity grid of continental Europe to the  ENTSO-e, and that has been an immense help. We have also established a trust fund in the energy community secretariat in Vienna that has been attracting resources for the energy sector. We donated about EUR160 million in grants there, and other donors have also contributed.

Furthermore, we just contributed EUR100 million for winter preparedness, and we have also put an additional EUR100 million through KFW to Ukrenergo to boost your energy sector grid operator. And one of the unsung heroes, one of the important areas of support, is called the civil protection mechanism. In the early weeks and months of the full-scale war, it was the main channel that was bringing to Ukraine emergency equipment of all sorts. Now it is concentrated mostly on energy delivery, including all the turbines and generators, etc. They are not only sourced from the EU member states but also from other donors, including Japan, Korea, Canada, and others.

We provide the logistics and transportation channel. We collect the material in an energy hub in eastern Poland and from there it's then delivered to Ukraine, at what has been estimated at another cost of around 100 million euros. And in terms of in-kind assistance, we have provided over a thousand high-voltage generators and small turbines to help with the winter preparedness.

 

Do you believe that this winter is going to be harder than the previous one?

I think it's going to be harder than last winter. Hopefully not as hard as the first winter of the full-scale invasion, but that's a hope, we will see. I think people should brace themselves for difficult times, but I very much hope we will be able to avoid a catastrophic scenario. 

 

How did you react to information about the situation regarding management changes in Ukrenergo and Volodymyr Kudrytskyi?

We are right now looking at a situation where we have an incomplete supervisory board, and we have temporary management. We are currently involved in very productive discussions with the various ministries, including Deputy Prime Minister Svirydenko and the Ministry of Energy. I am a member of the observers of the nomination committee for state-owned enterprises alongside IFIs, like EBRD and IFC. We have expressed our views and concerns. And I think we are now in productive discussions on how to reboot the Supervisory Board. The discussions are still ongoing, but I think that we will find a path forward.

 

Also, I have a question about elections in the US. We can’t predict who is going to win, but it’s obvious as of now that Trump's position on Ukraine is quite controversial and there could be some changes in support. Is the EU capable of supporting Ukraine if the United States is going to reduce it?

I think that we have seen quite a bit of creativity and impact in our support. As I mentioned, we are the biggest financial supporter of Ukraine. I think that, especially on the military side, it might be a little daunting at the beginning, but Ukraine is in Europe. We share a common destiny, we share a continent, so we better be able to step in if the need arises.

 

EU-Ukraine meetings to assess the adaptation of Ukrainian legislation to the EU are ongoing now. How long in total might the screening process take, and how do you assess Ukraine’s current work on EU membership?

The bilateral screening process is now in full swing. This is the stage where we compare Ukrainian legislation and institutions to the EU aquis- the rules and norms that bind the EU. As I said on multiple occasions, I am amazed by the capacity and determination of Ukraine to undertake reforms and advance on its path to EU membership while fighting a war against brutal Russian aggression.

Having said that, there is still a long technical road ahead of us. Accession process is complicated and cannot be done overnight.